I'm not sure if it's just common in the area where I live, but I've noticed that the word "goth" seems to have extremely negative connotations in the scene. Here in Knoxville, there's a forum called knoxgothic.com, but ask anyone on the website and they're quick to denounce any connections. They say, "Oh, I like the music and I wear a lot of black and I like the culture in general, but I'm not goth." Another girl on the site said, "I don't think anybody here is stupid enough to actually consider themselves goth."
I've noticed it is becoming more and more common for people to deny their connections to the gothic subculture. Even people I know who dress in head-to-toe black every day, wear corsets, dye their hair black and listen exclusively to bands like Bauhaus all vehemently deny that they're goth. I seem to be one of the only people here in my town who openly admits to being a goth.
Most say that they deny it because they don't like "labels." I don't think it's limiting at all to admit to being part of a group. It would be like saying that because I have my own unique style of bellydancing, I can't call myself a bellydancer. Categorizing something doesn't strip it of its essential qualities. Labelling people doesn't take away the things that make them unique. I think it's foolish to think that everyone is so different and so special that everybody defies basic categorization. There are millions of people in this world. Some of them are goth. Very few of them seem to be able to own up to that fact.
Has anybody else noticed this? It seems like "goth" has become a taboo word, even to those who very obviously fit the bill. I think it would be foolish of me to say I wasn't goth, considering I listen to gothic music, I dress in head-to-toe black every day, I wear victorian-inspired garb including corsets, I wear dark makeup, my house is decorated like a crypt, and I'm naturally drawn to the darker side of life. I think that makes me pretty fucking goth, and I think others who are similar are pretty fucking goth, too.
I've noticed it is becoming more and more common for people to deny their connections to the gothic subculture. Even people I know who dress in head-to-toe black every day, wear corsets, dye their hair black and listen exclusively to bands like Bauhaus all vehemently deny that they're goth. I seem to be one of the only people here in my town who openly admits to being a goth.
Most say that they deny it because they don't like "labels." I don't think it's limiting at all to admit to being part of a group. It would be like saying that because I have my own unique style of bellydancing, I can't call myself a bellydancer. Categorizing something doesn't strip it of its essential qualities. Labelling people doesn't take away the things that make them unique. I think it's foolish to think that everyone is so different and so special that everybody defies basic categorization. There are millions of people in this world. Some of them are goth. Very few of them seem to be able to own up to that fact.
Has anybody else noticed this? It seems like "goth" has become a taboo word, even to those who very obviously fit the bill. I think it would be foolish of me to say I wasn't goth, considering I listen to gothic music, I dress in head-to-toe black every day, I wear victorian-inspired garb including corsets, I wear dark makeup, my house is decorated like a crypt, and I'm naturally drawn to the darker side of life. I think that makes me pretty fucking goth, and I think others who are similar are pretty fucking goth, too.
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Sun, July 8, 2007 - 11:49 AMAs far as I know, this attitude has its precedents. Eldritch was known to deny being a goth, so his fans denied it too. There just does seem to be a lotof it about. Not considered cool for some reason, or just to be perverse.
You could always tell these stuck-up folks that one sure symptom for being a goth is that they will always proclaim loudly they are not, so in fact to deny it is the acid test that they are...... -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Sun, July 8, 2007 - 11:56 AMI guess it seems cool to defy category for some people, but I think that's wildly self-important. Out of all the people on the entire planet, I'm not self-involved enough to think there's nobody out there even sort of like me. I just don't get why you wouldn't want to embrace a sense of community with people who obviously have something in common with you.
Andrew Eldritch is probably rolling up the sleeves of his leather jacket right now, preparing to strangle me, but The Sisters of Mercy are goth. I don't care. They just are.
Haha, I think the true litmus test to prove they're goth is the fact that they're active members on a board called knoxgothic.com! But yeah, the pretention factor hurts their case more than it helps. You think you're above the gothic subculture? Guess what? You're soaking in it! -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Sun, July 8, 2007 - 12:25 PMWell, I don't mind confessing to being goth.... -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Sun, July 8, 2007 - 1:18 PMYou're one of very, very few! -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Sun, July 8, 2007 - 3:01 PMI'm another one. I'd be pretty silly to join a tribe called "goths" if I didn't identify as such. :)
I don't think this is anything new. In the early 90s, pretty much all of the goths in my home town vigorously objected to the term. Some of them said, "I'm not goth. I'm *industrial*." Others just said things like, "I just hate goths." No, I don't get it either.
By the late 90s, when I was in college, I started noticing a self-mocking tone to it. There was a gothic email list called "notgoth," which was later followed by "snotgoth." There were various purity-style tests to determine just how goth you were, which would award you goth points for doing things like drinking absinthe, wearing knee-high buckle boots, listening to Bauhaus, and claiming to not be goth.
Happily, and maybe this is just because we're getting old, but here in the Boston scene I don't seem to hear people talking all that much about how goth they are or aren't any more. -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Sun, July 8, 2007 - 7:56 PMhmm, this one hits close to home, i like the music, i like to dress in black, and to some extent, i have the right mindset, i WAS going to state that goth is more about a particular mindset, an attitude, a way of being, and then go on to say that i dont fit that, but in fact, i do, i just dont wear the clothes. i dont identify myself as a goth, as i dont feel i really am, but the lines are particularly blurry right now, lol. i like the music, i like the attitude, but i prefer to wear falnnel and jeans, lol, but if given the oppurtunity, i would wear nothing but black and various styles of goth fashion 24/7, but for some reason i normally dont connect well with goths, well the younger ones anyway, the baby abts are too.... well... lame. pretentious, darker than thou so to speak. i have never thought of myself as goth, just a guy that like certain things, never thought to label myself. hmm, dont think i will now either, lol. i just konw what i like.
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Tue, July 10, 2007 - 2:13 PMYou live in Knoxville. 'Nuf said. No problem admitting to being goth in San Francisco. However, don't admit to being a Republican here, whereas in Knoxville.... -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Thu, July 12, 2007 - 10:21 AMI'm in Philadelphia and it's almost taboo not to consider yourself goth.
Seriously though - I wear black every day. I listen to Cruxshadows, Bowie, Angelspit, Rasputina... it's a long list. I wear black eyeliner everywhere. I prefer latex to nylon. I adore Morticia Adams and Lily Munster. I have a pin in my office that says "I'm not anti-social, I just hate you." My idea of a fab dress is either purple taffeta with a black weft in a victorian pattern or somthing tight and black. hell - I have a wide brim hat that I've decorate with a nice mottled pale grey and ash white chiffon veil to wear to the beach... it looks like scarlet o'hara died and redid her hat with gothy fabric. Keeps the sun off though!
yeah. I'm goth. I admit it, love it and am refered to as such by my friends. (I think it kinda scares my co-workers but I try to keep the volume low...) I don't dress goth all the time though everything I wear has that flavor. What I mean is, I don't look like I'm on my way to the club every second of every day. I think that a lot of young goths think that if they ident as such then they have to look like the walked out of a Deady or Gloom Cookie issue all the time. And I don't. I have a pair of green shorts a la Lara Croft that I wear with a pair of black combat boots and a teal tank top that has Gir on the front dancing. Do I still think I'm goth? Fuck yeah.
But I think that it has a lot to do with where you live. If I was in the mid west I probably wouldn't have the open acceptance I have here. It might also be that I'm 28 and very far past caring what other people think. -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Thu, July 12, 2007 - 1:03 PMI think people just are afraid of being associated with the poseurs and wannabes.
Me, I'm not afraid of being called a Goth. I can't afford to dress as "over-the-top" as a lot of Goths do. I don't wear makeup. I can't afford to go to clubs. But I do have a facination for "dark" things, including bands.
Of course, some would argue that I'm not "Goth" enough, but frankly, I don't give a damn.
-Ariadne
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Fri, July 27, 2007 - 1:14 AMI going to come off as harsh after the last comment, but... "No problem admitting to being goth in San Francisco". I recall meeting quite a few people associated with Death Guild who would become nearly livid if called "Goth"... Although, I had never seen goths dance to hip hop until my encounters with them. At which point I became nearly livid. Hmmmm..... It looks like a duck, but barks like a dog... new species?
~K -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Fri, July 27, 2007 - 12:30 PMNo offense taken. Admitting to being goth and liking being called goth are two different things. Also, apparently DG is being taken over by people way outside the entire G/I scene. I expect some ugly confontations in the not-too-distant future.
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Thu, July 12, 2007 - 10:24 PMI actually remember being a little puzzled when people started asking me if I was goth. I'd never thought about it one way or the other. I'd always worn lots of black, loved Poe, loved the Cure, Siouxsie, Sisters ,etc. and enjoyed cemetary art (and thus hanging out in them), Poe, Byron, Shelly, Keats, etc. I just thought I was a bit of a nerd with a dark bent. So... I DID think about it... did some research... and realized there was finally a name and an established subculture for what I had always been. So I started answering that question with, "Yeah, I AM goth, aren't I?" I didn't care when it didn't have a name and I don't care that it now does. I like that it makes it a little easier to hook up with those who share my personal perversities ;) but it hasn't changed my life much one way or the other. Sure I'm a goth. But at the end of the day I've always just been "that weird chick in black" and either way, I'm just fine with it. If it walks like a duck and if it quacks like a duck....
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Fri, July 13, 2007 - 4:30 PMPersonally, I'm not sure if I even am a Goth anymore. I still wear black, and I'm pretty much the same person I always was, but I mostly listen to Industrial and Metal, and I mostly go to Industrial clubs. So I refer to myself as a Rivethead, though other friends of mine insist I'm still a Goth. -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Fri, July 27, 2007 - 1:02 AMYes.. the Rivethead thing... I've used a rivet gun, have you? LOL!!!!!! I had a guy insist once that Rivethead and riveting had nothing to do with eachother.... I had to laugh to myself and think of how this guy really thought he was hard core, but had done nothing to prove it aside from buying a pair of New Rocks. I suppose if you've done any welding or something of that nature at least, I could accept it. ; ) -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Sat, July 28, 2007 - 2:58 PM> I've used a rivet gun, have you? LOL!!!!!!
Yes, I actually have, and a bit of simple welding too, though that was many years ago, before I'd even heard of Industrial music... ;-) -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Mon, July 30, 2007 - 10:23 PMSweet.
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Fri, July 27, 2007 - 12:50 AMYea! I love you! Awhile back, I tried to write a paper for an English class about Gothic culture. I could not find a single person who was willing to call themselves "Goth" and let me do an interview though. This is including friends of mine who started sneaking me into goth clubs back when I was 13. It was soooooo obnoxious, and obviously pretentious! You'd think I had called them Emo or something. : ) Anyway, I am a GOTH! I can hardly stand most music outside of the goth genres, I really enjoy getting decked out all evil, and going to cemeteries, and the wave gottik treffen, and reading about Vampires, and being in the dark...... and on and on. It honestly isn't just a style to me, it is who I am. I can't imagine that I will ever be ashamed of it. It was quite a surprise for me to discover that so many people were. People who can't recognize that stereotypes (regardless of how concrete) exist must be a bit outside of reality. Or perhaps being goth but not admitting to it is just the new fab trend...? (BUSTED!)
~Kadesh -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Fri, July 27, 2007 - 4:50 AMI just think it's so ridiculous to fit the bill 100% and still deny it, you know? I mean, I would have to be even more pretentious than most goths just to think that I was so original and amazing that I completely defied categorization. Haha, I'm so glad there are others out there who admit to being goth. -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Fri, July 27, 2007 - 10:46 AMBTW... what do you use to get such a dark color on your eyes? I've tried just about every black shadow out there, and they always turn out grey. I read recently that the eyeliner that comes as a gel works, but I don't really want to spend any more money on trying to figure it out. It seems that shadows don't really show up on me at all... Am I just buying the wrong brand? : )
~K -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Sun, July 29, 2007 - 6:50 AMI used to have the same problem! Even the blackest shadow would turn out charcoal at the very best. But the one thing I've tried that works is to wet the brush slightly. Just wet the bristles or the sponge with some water and dip it in the shadow. The brush shouldn't be sopping or dripping, but wet enough to make the shadow stick to it. Make sure you drag it across the top of the shadow several times to get a high concentration of color, and then apply. Voila! I've actually been able to get a real black-eyed look, something I've been trying to do for like six years. -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Mon, July 30, 2007 - 10:30 PMIs there a certain brand that you would suggest? I have probably thrown away all of my blacks for being grey. ; (
~K -
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Fri, August 3, 2007 - 5:52 AMJust a few days ago I managed to actually find an eyeshadow that stayed black even without it having to be wet first! The brand is called Savvy, and the specific kind is, "Savvy Infinity Long Wear Cake Eyeliner." I guess what you're supposed to do is dip a thin brush in and use it for powdered eyeliner, which is why it's so dark. I just take a big, thick brush and rub it inside, then spread it over my eyelids and it's black. Although, I do recommend carrying it with you as it tends to fade.
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Fri, July 27, 2007 - 12:32 PMHeck, I admit to being goth more than I appear to be goth.
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Re: Why do so few people admit to being goth?
Fri, August 3, 2007 - 7:44 AMBTW, everyone going on Goth Cruise IV admits to being goth.